I want it so bad

"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228) 01/28/2014 at 10:05 • Filed to: Bad ideas

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!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , 1.5l TC engine, been in dry storage so minimal rot. £995. For comparison, they sit somewhere between a 2002 and an OG Mini in size. Good little runabout until I can swap in a Sprint 2.0l 16v engine, the STA rear from a Triumph 2000 (same track width) and the quad rounds from a Dolomite.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/28/2014 at 10:14

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What about a diesel swap? Then you can have fuel economy as well :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/28/2014 at 10:22

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But then I wouldn't have SOHC 16v Triumph weirdness...

pdx107 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/28/2014 at 10:23

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I don't know if I have ever seen one of those before but I love it

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/28/2014 at 10:30

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Plus, in a comparison test that for the life of me I can't find again, the Dolomite Sprint's power delivery is described as 'brutal'. This was a test comparing the Dolly Sprint, the 2000 GTV and the 2002 Tii. Vaunted company.

How can I possibly turn that down?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > pdx107 01/28/2014 at 10:35

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I don't think they ever sold them in the US, but they're really cool little things. They made loads of them, but so many have met the scrapper so the two-doors are relatively rare.

Kickass little things.

AMC/Renauledge > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/28/2014 at 11:12

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All of your suggested updates are perfect.

This Toledo is absolutely ripe for a serious injection of Dollie Sprint. I hope you get it and update us on the progress!

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/28/2014 at 11:12

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But it's only half an engine. Might as well put in the V8 :)

I'm pretty sure that the 'brutal' power delivery was compared to cars without multi-valve heads, but you've a lot of options since then. Or maybe, being BL, it means the engine ejected cogs and bearings out the back into the driver's face.

Might be a bit tricky getting one to fit, but there are any number of transverse-mounted four pot diesels which'll make roughly the same power as the Dolly Sprint was supposed to have, but which will also give you 50+ mpg around town. I think of it as a screw-the-taxman special - no road tax, minimal insurance tax, and very little fuel tax. Oh, and no new car VAT for him either.

Joseph Shaul > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/28/2014 at 11:22

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There are only two answers to this question: Miata Swap and Stick An LS V8 in it.

....Yes, I'm American. Why do you ask?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Joseph Shaul 01/28/2014 at 11:37

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While I'm usually against most forms of cross-species LS swap, for some reason I love LS Miata/MX-5s.

There's just something right about them :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/28/2014 at 11:43

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Quite possibly the second option.

It was compared to 2v per head engines. One used DOHC to get power, another used fuel injection and the Triumph used 16 valves. Considering how much people gush about 2000 GTVs and 2002s (including me, quite a lot actually), I'd consider the Sprint engine a worthy swap :)

I know there's someone who's managed to sandwich a Rover V8 into one of these, but that's not my intention. I'd want to make something that Triumph could have made, if they were a little less cash-strapped and a bit more bonkers.

If I was going to go with a modern engine, I think I'd use a K-Series. It keeps it within the same nationality, is a lighter engine and with similar specs to the engine in the early Elises is an utterly bonkers powerplant.

I love the 'screw the tax man' idea though :) I reckon when people start coming out with dinky little 3-cylinder turbocharged diesels one of those would be perfect.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > AMC/Renauledge 01/28/2014 at 11:44

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Thanks :)

I'm currently thinking of ways to get the cash quickly. I've sent an email to the chap asking how much interest he's had, and if he'd be willing to wait a bit if I agreed to pay full price. No haggling.

Fingers crossed :)

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/28/2014 at 16:14

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It's a real shame all the European manufacturers don't do crate motors like the Americans. Can you imagine if you could pick up a Twinair without having to find a written-off Fiat?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/28/2014 at 16:23

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Ooh, a twinair would be good.

It is a real shame. I wonder whether there'd be a market in going out and buying old tooling for some iconic engines and setting up production of crate engines.

You could probably turn a good profit making brand new Rover V8s, Alfa twincams, Fiat twincams, BMW M engines, Jaguar XK I6s and suchlike.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/28/2014 at 17:08

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There is something of a market, and you can buy at least some of those, not sure about all. Definitely a new Rover V8 or Jag XK. The demand isn't high enough to make them viable at a mainstream price, though, I think - they're each practically one-offs, with the costs that go with that.

I'm guessing there isn't enough of a market to make lots of them at a cheaper price, or someone would have done.

Personally, I can't imagine buying one unless I was ludicrously loaded (so not for a few years :). I respect your devotion to marque-appropriate engines, but for me it's not worth making the car worse to have one - and since unfortunately cost is a factor, modern engines are the way to go. Plus, I like restomods.

I'm wondering what the price and market would be like if you could have bought (say) the E30 tooling from BMW when it went out of production, stored it for twenty years, and then re-started production today. Probably cheaper to re-tool now, but either way, with no development cost for the car you could sell it at something close to the build cost.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/28/2014 at 17:18

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I like restomods too, but I prefer the added challenge of making something that a period equivalent of AMG could have done. That's entirely personal preference.

I don't think you'd make any money with the Rover V8 unfortunately. There's too many of them knocking around for ~£500 in reasonable nick for people to consider dropping a couple of thousand on a brand new one.

An XK would be another matter though. E-Types are bloody expensive at the moment, so the people who buy them will most likely be able to shell out for a brand new engine if theirs goes bang. Same with the classic endurance racing crowd.

I've thought that as well actually. You'd have to get the same sort of type approval that Caterham do, but I reckon it'd be possible.

It'd probably be worth doing it with some desirable classics as well. E-Types, high-price Alfa GTVs and Spiders, BMW E9s, MGB V8s, Stags, 911s. Something like that, where a nice OG one will cost in excess of £10,000 (or a lot more in some cases).

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/28/2014 at 17:22

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"I like restomods too, but I prefer the added challenge of making something that a period equivalent of AMG could have done. "

I like that idea too, but sadly I have to think about money. An engine that costs a couple of thousand quid more means a couple of thousand less to spend on other parts.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/28/2014 at 17:39

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Yeah, this company wouldn't be of any use to people like you and I.

The period equivalent of AMG thing is easily achievable on a modest budget. I know, I've got one :)

Triumph I6: £500. Same goes for an RV8 or a Sprint engine, used of course. Easier (and cheaper) to rebuild than a modern engine as well.

Was it you that bought the E30 a while back? If so, how's that going?

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/28/2014 at 19:08

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Didn't you post something about spending a small fortune on bits to rebuild your engine?

Yes, it was me with the E30. Still is. Bit frustrating at the moment, because every time I try and work on it it's either raining or dark. I really needed to get more done last summer. Still runs fine, and a hoot on suburban streets in the wet thanks to still having the same old tyres on it - sideways at twenty and stuff. Oh, and I did a stupid and dropped the bonnet on a plastic cover the other day, so now I need to try and find a new one. First thing I've actually broken, as opposed to dismantled and not yet put back together.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/28/2014 at 19:18

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I spent just under a grand, but I could have spent less if I didn't go for the high-quality bearings, a hotter cam and other such things. The basic rebuild kit is actually £550. I haven't actually looked at the costs for rebuilding a modern engine, but I'd wager it's more than that (although it's probably needed less).

It's horrible working outside at the moment. Both wet and cold, and dark early. Not weather conducive to mucking about with cars.

Ooh dear. A new bonnet or a new plastic cover?

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/28/2014 at 19:41

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I'm sure it depends what modern engine we're talking about, but bearing in mind the whole point is to replace something relatively high-end with something much more ordinary that makes the same kind of power the modern way, I suspect it might not be as much as you think. Depends what you'd include in a rebuild - new injectors will set you back a bit even on a four-pot, but they're not normally needed. A new ECU or some such is almost definitely overkill, but if you're going for 'like new' then you'd want to include stuff like that as well. How long is a piece of string...

I think I've posted before about the E30's bonnet daggers. Definitely the bonnet won, and the plastic bit lost.

You can sort of see them in this pic - not mine.

It was really stupid of me. I know that the bonnet doesn't stay up properly unsupported, and that it falls down whenever I slam the door - and to make it worse, the car was parked on a hill, so it was already trying to fall. I not only left the plastic cover right where the bonnet catches go, but then I slammed the door. Shattered the plastic bit into several pieces, unsurprisingly.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/28/2014 at 19:53

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Good point. You probably wouldn't be rebuilding a modern engine anyway. They tend to last past 100k before needing one, unlike most classics :) if it does need a rebuild though, I reckon it'd be bloody expensive. You don't have the same sort of aftermarket support for most new engines as popular classic ones, so you'd likely have to get a fair amount of things OEM. Pistons, oversized crank bearings, oil pumps, camshafts/followers etc.

At least it didn't come down on your head, so that's one thing :) I had the bonnet of an E36 come down on my head a couple of months back. Lots of blood, and off to the minor injuries unit to get glued back together (literally).

Moral of the story is the same though. Bonnets beat little bits of plastic (I was using an airbox to prop it up).

Jobjoris > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/29/2014 at 03:02

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Interior looks great, advertisement says it has a recon engine, where can you go wrong? Not sure it runs though but you'll have that problem anyway with a BLMC I suppose ;-)

Won't it be a problem obtaining all the parts you want to swap? Over here (other side of the Canal) it would. A 2-door Sprint, awesome!

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Jobjoris 01/29/2014 at 05:36

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It does look good:) the bodywork's the main thing though, and that looks good as well.

Sprint engines aren't as plentiful as they used to be, but they're still knocking around so I should be able to find one. Parts availability for them is great too. Beyond that it's just parts-matching with a Dolomite Sprint, as these used the same basic bodyshell (with a couple of alterations to doors and boot length).

The tricky part would be finding the semi-trailing arm Triumph 2000 suspension. There's not all that many of them left, and it needs to be the early ones. They've got the same track width as Dolomites and Toledos.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/29/2014 at 07:24

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Yeah, I'm not really sure about what would count as rebuilding a modern engine. You're more likely to need a new turbo or something than to have the crank bearings go, I'd have thought - but like you, I have no actual experience.

How is your head, by the way? Hope it's all healed now - and at least you don't have to buy parts to fix flesh wounds. I remembered someone on here posting about dropping a bonnet on their head - that was when I mentioned the bonnet daggers, I think - but I'd forgotten it was you.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111 01/29/2014 at 08:01

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Thanks :) it healed pretty quickly to be honest. No real damage, but it looked pretty grisly for a while.

I suppose crank wear would depend entirely on the mileage. If something's hitting 200k then it'll probably need something doing, but much less than that and you'd probably get away with it. Modern materials and all that.

Entirely guesswork though.